My PC does this really annoying thing, whenever I tell it to Install and Shut Down the bloody thing restarts every time
That’s because the shutdown hardly exists anymore. When you choose shutdown now it just hibernates. Reboot is the only way to get the full refresh of a shutdown unless you’re using CMD.
Ugh, the updates…my work PC is Win 11, I got an email from IT last night telling me I had to install the latest update I had been putting off. This morning after I clocked out I started the update. I have 500 down and it took almost 2 hours to download and 3 hours later the installation is only at 53%. I’m just going to go to bed and hope it’s done by the time I have to clock in tonight.
And my coworkers wonder why I prefer Linux…
I like and I do use Linux as my main OS. No dual boot BS, just pure Linux
butttttttttttttt
getting hibernate working perfectly in Linux on new hardware is PITA. I’m just happy with suspend working well, let alone hibernation.
Modern standby is the absolute shit of an invention.
This is the ONLY reason I wish I have a Mac. Forget all the memes and jokes about Apple, their laptops suspend very well. IIRC, they also have a hibernation timer built in, so if your laptop automatically hibernates after X hrs. But I dont want to be stuck in their ecosystem, so yeh…
Linux devs are not that keen to make hibernate work well either. Remember systemd dev forcefully removed the “suspend then hibernate” feature? You can still find the thread on Github lol.
this meme is especially true for students and the likes 😂 whenever you share a one-room flat with a laptop made by clueless techbros for clueless techbros, the increased fan whirring really shines.
“My PC” was even replaced with “this PC” since Windows 11, which feels almost too symbolic…
To be fair, Linux has not been especially awesome at suspended/hibernate/resume, historically.
My linux PC used to be unable to hibernate/sleep at all, and my current laptop occasionally gets some kind of backlight burn-in from sleeping when the lid’s closed
Yea, I like to suspend my machine, but rather than hit suspend and walk away I have to wait to find out what has prevented suspend from suspending. That and it trying to goto sleep when I don’t want it to. Drives me nuts
🤭and sometimes, if you wake your linux things go to shit and all you see is black screen and white mouse on it
Sometimes super+ctrl+alt+F8 saves me and I can restart PC from TTY, and sometimes, there is only a flashing cursor. In second case, I have to take hard measures and forcefully manually restart it
(Yes nvidia card with latest proprietary driver and kde on wayland) -> everything latest meaning from endeavour/arch/aur repos.
Not every Nvidia but always Nvidia.
Maybe it is kinda a bias since nvidia is easy to blame and is existing in most PCs 🤔
All my hybernation issues went away after i switched to an AMD GPU. Not evidence in itself, just an experience an opinion.
AMD had a problems with hibernation, too. amdgpu driver sometimes crashed on waking up. Problems disappeared about a year ago.
Well i switched somewhat around that time. Guess i was lucky.
I like how you corrected opinion to experience 😃👌🏻
And yes, I would call that an evidence, not a proof but clearly an evidence, especially if you did not change anything else (hardware or start from scratch setting up Linux distribution).
Another day of learning about Linux from the comments under a meme.
Nope. My Linux Mint randomly wakes up from sleep mode all the time. It’s just a bug. Tried to fix it, never found solution. I guess I am fine with it. Well. Not really. Help me if you can!!11!!
Apparently you can see which devices can wake your PC with
cat /proc/acpi/wakeup. S3 should be sleep and S4 hibernation. Though I have no idea which device is which.Lspci and lsusb will help you match up with the list
Thank you guys! Lemmy is great!
My first guess world be unplug your mouse and keyboard and see if it still happens. Your mouse or keyboard could be sending phantom inputs sometimes. If it’s a laptop maybe not though or you’d have to test it another way at least. But it’s the first thing I’d do.
Put chrome on it, that should fix it
I started down the Linux route over the weekend and put my computer in hibernation and couldn’t figure out how to wake it up from its torpor without restarting. So I’m going with suspension for the time being
Firstly, welcome :)
Secondly, hibernation on Linux requires swap partition 2x size of the RAM. If you didn’t set it big enough or did not set at all, hibernation wouldn’t work. However if you set it correctly, there should be another reason to consider.
If you are not sure, you can use this command on terminal to compare your RAM and swap sizes.
free -m
The main thing I’m learning from this thread is that a surprising number of people don’t shut their machines down when they’re done using them. Which is wild to me.
A lot of modern windows laptop don’t let you shut them down.
They use something called Windows Hybrid Sleep and it should be illegal. Selecting shut down in windows will keep the machine in a state where it will turn on at random times to check for updates. Especially fun whrn in your backpack creating a furnace.
Thankfully it can be disabled via AD policy.
Shouldn’t have to use fucking group policy just to stop your machine updating at inopportune times. Fucking Windows.
It’s always funny to me when people call Linux complicated and in the next sentence say shit like that
As if doing registry edits and group policy stuff is acceptable for basic features and settings
deleted by creator
You dont need to use group policy.
Admin console: powercfg.exe /hibernate off
Now its off. Hybrid sleep is just a faster Hibernate.
Or just turn off fast Startup in the power settings.
I meant that you can thankfully disable it with group policy so that the 3000 laptops I manage at work don’t all cook in backpacks every day.
I’ve been out of the GPO game for a while, but I’ve never heard of widespread issues with laptops waking up even if their lids are closed. Did this start with Windows 11?
Ah yes, the greek hydra of IT. Disable one policy, two more shall take it’s place.
Ah yeah I forgot about hybrid sleep as I turned if off years ago and forgot it existed. Such a nonsense feature.
Or just disable the Fast Startup option
I remember you have to press either Shift or Alt for the shutdown button to actually shut down the PC.
is that not on by default for every windows installation?
As someone who knows how to manage the power and update settings in Windows to prevent this from happening, I am learning that Linux users may not understand how to actually configure Windows to their liking. Which is wild to me.
No point. Sleep works great and live updates are flawless.
Why would you? Sleep uses so little power and the resume is instant.
If it wasn’t for S0 standby being such a piece of shit I’d never shutdown my computer unless it was for an update or hardware maintenance.
Have you seen how fast computers turn on these days (from complete shutdowns)? It’s 2-3 seconds (if hibernation is completely off). Barely an inconvenience - specially not one worth risking the pc turning on by itself on random times.
I mean since the advent of SSDs I’ve not found the boot times of computers to be all that slow and I typically quite like coming back to a clean desktop on a new day rather than having junk from yesterday being thrown at me.
Even if the boot time is fast, you lose a lot of the program states. Not only it takes extra time to load those applications, it’s also a fair amount of effort to put everything back where it should be.
If it was necessary to shut computers down, no problem, it’s not too much time and effort. But there’s normally no need to shut computers down, it’s just wasted time with no benefits (usually).
yeah if ur working on something you should sleep the computer, but if you’re working with, like, one app, or if youre not working on anything, i see no reason not to shutdown ur pc
Even if it’s only one app, what is the purpose? To save on electricity that powers RAM?
sure? i could bring the same argument back to you:
why wouldn’t you shut it down? so that you can wait a couple of seconds less?
there’s basically no difference. it only depends on what you’re used to doing and maybe if you care about the little electricity that’s being used constantly for little to no reason
But you can’t bring the same argument back to me. Cold booting requires more time and effort. Thus to make that argument, one needs to provide the benefits that compensate for the downsides. Some people provided possible benefits that matter to their specific case, like, PSU makes noise (actually, that was you in a different thread), or they want to save laptop battery, etc. But if we are taking about a modern stationary computer with mains power, there’s practically no benefit to shutting it down, only downsides.
Of course it’s completely valid for somebody to do it out of habit, but they can’t expect to use that as a valid argument for others to do it.
Well yes why not save that battery power
I was mostly talking about stationary computers, but even in case of a laptop (unless it runs Windows which has terrible sleep management) the benefits of starting your work immediately once you open the lid outweighs the cons of losing a couple percent of battery overnight.
Make it quiet so I can go to sleep
But a sleeping computer is just as quiet as a shut down computer… Which is totally silent. I don’t get it.
For me the only thing I needed to “put back where it should be” was my VPN. Bu I switched to wireguard from Eddie, so now I don’t need to adjust anything on startup
See I want all the junk from yesterday.
Because a laptop waking from sleep while in a bag is a fire hazard.
If S0 standby wasn’t so shit, or we could go back to old reliable S1-3 that wouldn’t be an issue.
Just like the brain computers need off-time to calm their electrons and unflip their bits.
/s but a lot of issues really are solved by a reboot
The only reason why my uptime is only a month is because I took my PC with me on a work trip which involved packing it.
Sign in states for tokens expire when you power cycle. If you’re in IT or moving between classes, not only would you have to wait for power down and power on each stop you make,you’d also need to sign into every tool you use that requires credentials. I work as a field tech for an MSP. If I had to shut down at the end of each stop and boot back up then I’d have to spend 20-30 minutes signing back into my RMM, ticket system, azure portal, knowledge base etc on top of the site specific stuff I’m already going to have to sign into for that stop. Sleep great. Just disable S0 sleep.
That’s ass. Your bosses should be moving away from that shitty software
Shitty software? The software is great. It sucks that we live in a world that needs MFA to be secure. I also don’t think any software exists in the IT space that doesn’t require some sign in. Every RMM on the planet is going to require secure sign on and so will every knowledge base software. You also need to sign in to access things like domain DNS. Most of my job is locked behind half a dozen sign ins. That’s how it goes for MSPs anything else would be unsecure.
When I got my first (and only) PC, it was outright SUGGESTED to never power it down. By HP. So yeah I just sleep my computer, and yes I have to deal with the bullshit in the meme lol
Always wondered why the fuck my PC is awake before I even touch it.
Back in the day we did that because it too long to boot so we never shut it down.
20 years later we have servers at home that we never shut down.
me too. i see no reason not to shut it down, unless boot time takes way too long (you dont have an ssd), you use windows (always takes too long), or you have a bunch of apps open and don’t want to lose the workflow.
though i just have to shutdown anyway because my pc is right under a couple of roof leaks and it might rain while i’m sleeping or not at home
honest question, because i use windows and i shut down every day. is 20 seconds really “too long” for a full boot up?
I think a lot of people are still stuck in the HDD days where windows could take 15-20 mins for a cold boot.
But I only sleep windows because I like to get game updates while I sleep.
no, i was joking about the windows part there
i’d say too long is 1 minute or more
Look, I used to work with computers that would take 5 minutes to turn on. I’m done waiting for computers to boot, I want it to take the least time it can. If hibernation takes just 1 second off, I’m gonna use it.
To be fair I don’t always use it like that but suspend is convenient if I have a continuous work that is scattered all around.
what i’d day is “always turn off your computer when you’re done using it”, meaning you sleep it when you have work you don’t want to lose.
I agree with some comments here, hibernation/suspension has been tricky, I’ve always had minor bugs and like kinda major, screen… lines? popping up and just not even working sometimes, welp. I suppose it’s better knowing what’s breaking than wrestling control between you and microsoft…
Mine just doesn’t suspend/hibernate at all. Probably some dependency not installed, but I’m not assed to find out which one
Yeah I think it’s going to show up in some log what exactly is causing that but I usually search what I’m supposed to do so… do that if you have time I guess
Linux users when their computer won’t boot because they fucked up their grub config again: (Totally not me)
Are you distro hopping? That’s when my grub would fail on me on a monthly basis.
Or just installed few months of missing updates, looking at you my broken Manjaro dual-boot
Just don’t use a rolling distro.
Tumbleweed will update six months of packages or more without breaking a sweat. It’s all about using something sturdy.
A lot of systems use systemd boot. Also, why would you be modifying Grub?
They’re trolling and have no idea what the fuck they’re talking about. I’ve literally not had a bootloader failure in a decade from multiple Linux OS installs.
The only time I had an issue was when I was playing with a bleeding edge distro and it borked full disk encryption, but that was INTENTIONALLY bleeding edge and I knew the risks.
Nah I was doing some virtualization troubleshooting and had to make some changes to grub. Luckily I had backups, but as a serial tinkerer I break stuff pretty often. Also fucked up my fstab when trying to automount drives, though that was an easy fix. I never claimed to be a clever man
Me with my computer in a different room
My Windows 10 computer eerily waking itself from sleep got me in the habit of shutting it down completely every night. I’d be lying in bed, turn over and open my eyes, and see the light of the screen reflecting off the wall. It was like something out of a shitty horror movie about computers taking over the world.
To this fucking day, even in Windows 11, it takes “Update and Shut Down” as a mere fucking suggestion. About half the time, it’ll restart after the update and just sit there chilling at the login screen. Not a single fuck given.
Linux is a breath of fresh air by comparison. Though, if you choose to run Arch you need to stay on top of updates or else a day will come where you won’t be able to update because you’re now too far behind. It can be fixed manually, but it’s still annoying and a little scary if you’re not familiar with it.
ACPI enabled BIOSes and UEFI support wake timers.
Windows uses this feature to wake the PC all spooky like so you don’t get to click the update button yourself.
While Windows doesn’t have an Arch wiki, the instructions for turning the automatic wake feature off are a web search away. You’ll need another web search to disable automatic updates though.
Imagine your oven or clothes iron turning itself on while you’re not home. Why TF people just accept their computers doing this is beyond me. Either it’s a boiling frog situation, or people simply don’t remember the times us users had complete control over our devices and think things were always this way.
As an 80s/90s kid, I can tell you they most definitely were not.
I hate windows doing windows things but that’s an oxymoron take because computers aren’t known to cause fires, if there was an apparent danger around leaving PCs on unattended, then there would’ve been legal repercussion. This is just a mere annoyance to most.
Windows has no idea of the state of the hardware it’s running on. Someone could be using a janky molex to sata power adapter, which are known to catch fire and only uses it when someone is present. Or a cheap-ass wish.com power supply with exploding capacitors.
Electricity isn’t free, and neither is it’s impact on your computer hardware. The life expectancy of a circuit may reasonably be approximated as a function of watt-hours. this is why hardware manufactuers test their circuits in ovens: the heat simulates high wattage.
it doesn’t matter if the power drain is low. So long as your computer is on, it’s lifetime watt-hours are constantly ticking down.
Sleep disruption is a serious health issue
The software is arrogant and needs to know its place. It serves the user. It should obey.
i didnt know arch did that. never happened to me, though i guess that’s because i update it like once every month or every two months, sometimes every day (depends on how long i can forget about updates existing)
The GPG keys that are used to sign packages expire and are rotated something like every six months to a year. If you don’t get the new ones in an update before they start being used, pacman will refuse to update at all.
It’s easily fixable, but if you don’t know that, it can be quite intimidating.
oh that makes sense, thx for explaining :D
You can update arch from any point of time to the current, it just takes a bit of time. Just use arch archove and update by month or two.
Windows wakes up from hibernate? How tf is that happening? Also how tf it knows when to update when its hibernated/sleeping?
Better always keep a gun next to your bed if you use Windows.
Good thing i don’t
CPU interrupts. There are timer interrupts that can be used for this. In hibernate, only a tiny fraction of the CPU is changing the transistor states. A transistor only uses power when it changes state; i.e. “off” or Hibernate. Transistor state changes when you cycle the clock on a CPU. Anyways, set the register for the timer interrupt and signal the CPU for Hibernate. The timer circuit is still listening to the clock while the rest of the CPU stops listening to the clock. Each clock cycle you subtract one from the register. When the register reaches zero, the timer interrupt wakes the rest of the CPU. Just like moving your mouse or pressing the power button; they signal an interrupt which wakes the CPU.
There is a thing called wake timers on Windows. There is also Wake-on-LAN but not sure if that’s enabled on default or not.
So they don’t wake when new update arrives but only for prescheduled previously downloaded update?
Yeah, update arriving part is not necessary but it wakes the PC up, checks for updates and install them if there are any, does this every night. And if you disabled auto-sleep it just stays like that until you interfere.
Shit its wake to check for updates🤦♂ So it happens even if there is no update… Thats so fucked up
from what i understood it wakes up randomly to check for updates, then goes back to sleep. or maybe it just stays on? im not sure
