Zelenskyy insists on guarantees ahead of Trump meeting after US president says Ukraine can ‘forget about’ joining Nato – live
www.theguardian.com
Ukrainian president says ‘guarantees of peace and security’ were vital ahead of expected talks in Washington on Friday

Donald Trump, at his first cabinet meeting, said he believed the US is negotiating “very successfully” with Russia and Ukraine.

The US president suggested that a ceasefire deal is close. “We’re going to make a deal with Russia and Ukraine to stop killing people,” he told reporters.

Asked if he is willing to make security guarantees as part of the deal, Trump replied:

I’m not going to make security guarantees beyond very much … We’re going to have Europe do that, because Europe is the next door neighbour.

He added that the US will be partnering with Ukraine “in terms of rare earth.” “We very much need rare earth, they have great rare earth,” Trump said.

Trump said it was “great deal for Ukraine too, because they get us over there, we are going to be working over there”.

    • PugJesus@lemmy.worldEnglish
      93·
      9 hours ago

      Sorry that I think Ukrainian genocide is bad. I know that’s a radical opinion on the performative left.

      • IndustryStandard@lemmy.worldOPEnglish
        47·
        9 hours ago

        Thinking it is bad is fine. The author of the Tweets even agrees with you in the screenshot you posted.

        But America is not helping Ukraine. It used Ukraine as a tool. Now that Ukraine is at its lowest point America starts extorting Ukraine.

        If this outcome (which many leftists correctly predicted) was known to Ukrainians three years ago, do you think Ukrainians would have been as enthusiastic to fight? So America can put a straw in their ground, and slurp up their minerals to fund Raytheon.

        • PugJesus@lemmy.worldEnglish
          112·
          9 hours ago

          If this outcome (which many leftists correctly predicted) was known to Ukrainians three years ago,

          "We predicted that we were going to help the GOP elect a Russian puppeted fascist three years ago, because NEOLIBS are worse than fascists, and the lives of minorities and foreigners don’t matter ^.^ "

          Quite a prediction from ‘many leftists’.

          do you think Ukrainians would have been as enthusiastic to fight? So America can put a straw in their ground, and slurp up their minerals to fund Raytheon.

          Do I think Ukrainians would have been as enthusiastic about not being genocided if America wasn’t supporting them?

          Yes. Most people who aren’t ghouls think that.

          • IndustryStandard@lemmy.worldOPEnglish
            23·
            7 hours ago

            The signalling about the minerals was done far before Trump took the reigns.

            Ukraine confirmed this week that they refused the early peace deal (which is better than the deal they will get now) because NATO promised to support them to the end.

            Neocons can blame this all on the convenient orange sheep, but the Biden administration made no effort to provide with Ukraine with decisive weapons to win the war. Only barely enough for the stalemate to keep going.

              • IndustryStandard@lemmy.worldOPEnglish
                23·
                7 hours ago

                Are you able to write a single comment without half of it painting the person you are disagreeing with as a supporter of Putin?

                Read one of your own favorite newspapers articles. They were already praising Ukraine’s minerals. When the war began. https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/natural-resources-ukraine-war-1.6467039

                And the open acknowledgment of mineral extortion is not a new Trump plan. It was openly proposed by neocons last year. https://www.kyivpost.com/post/28288

                • PugJesus@lemmy.worldEnglish
                  31·
                  7 hours ago

                  Are you able to write a single comment without half of it painting the person you are disagreeing with as a supporter of Putin?

                  Supporter is a strong word. I believe ‘useful idiot’ is the traditional nomenclature.

                  Read one of your own favorite newspapers articles and replace the word Russia with America. https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/natural-resources-ukraine-war-1.6467039

                  “Russia, a country on the border of Ukraine with long-standing interests in subjugating the people and territory, wants Ukraine’s minerals; therefore, the US wants it too”

                  Maybe India will invade next.

                  And the open acknowledgment of mineral extortion is not a new Trump plan. It was openly proposed by neocons last year. https://www.kyivpost.com/post/28288

                  Holy fucking shit, did you not read your own article?

                  Graham said the idea came from former President Donald Trump, who on Feb. 10 said that aid for Ukraine should not go through unless it’s restructured as a loan.

                  Jesus fucking Christ.

                  This is a common claim by fascist shitheads, and has been for a good two years now, that has been repeatedly debunked in various ways. It has been repeated by Trump’s fascist cronies recently, though, so it would be very interesting if you have an actual source for this. Surely you wouldn’t signal boost pro-genocide misinformation from fascist cunts in service to imperialist aims, and fascist cunts in service to the US fascist government, no less, would you…?

                  So that’s a ‘no’ to this one. Just freely repeating fascist claims in service to an ongoing genocide.

                  You want to know why you feel like you’re being painted as a “Putin supporter”? It’s because your talking points are from the same shit trough.

                  If you don’t want to be mistaken for a fascist, I might recommend no longer supporting fascist talking points, and, unlike fascists, maybe acting with some small modicum of respect for consistency and factual accuracy instead of repeating baseless claims which serve imperialist powers and citing sources that disprove your own points.

      • Keeponstalin@lemmy.worldEnglish
        34·
        9 hours ago

        Sorry that I think Ukrainian genocide is bad.

        Obviously Russia’s Genocide of Ukraine is bad. That’s not up for debate.

        • PugJesus@lemmy.worldEnglish
          72·
          9 hours ago

          Obviously Russia’s Genocide of Ukraine is bad. That’s not up for debate.

          Until the question of doing anything about it comes up, in which case it very quickly turns to “Well, suddenly I’m a fiscal conservative” or “Russia has Legitimate Security Interests 🥺”

          “Genocide bad, but we can’t actually do anything that might fight it!”

          Isn’t that the exact position you criticized mainstream Dems for, just on Palestine?

          • Keeponstalin@lemmy.worldEnglish
            23·
            8 hours ago

            Until the question of doing anything about it comes up, in which case it very quickly turns to “Well, suddenly I’m a fiscal conservative” or “Russia has Legitimate Security Interests 🥺”

            No, I’ve always supported arming Ukraine fighting against imperialism. My criticism of the US and Europe has been that they were not sending enough and should send in troops to assist Ukraine in fighting back against Russia. My other criticism was that the US was not genuine with the process for a ceasefire, regardless of whether Russia is serious or not (it’s still a critical pressure point) and instead prioritized prolonging the war with Russia the same way the Afghanistan proxy war was used against the USSR, at the cost of Ukrainian lives. Russia may have legitimate security interests concerning NATO from a geopolitical standpoint, but the invasion is unjustifiable and only justifies the necessity of a security pact. I’d prefer a different security pact where all European countries participate Democratically, since the US only cares about NATO as a form of US Hegemony and not about the well-being and sovereignty of any European country.

            Isn’t that the exact position you criticized mainstream Dems for, just on Palestine?

            I criticized the Dems and the Republicans for funding, defending, and facilitating a genocide. As anyone with a conscience should. We should be doing everything possible to fight back against imperialism and genocide. That’s what international law is supposed to be about.

            • PugJesus@lemmy.worldEnglish
              42·
              8 hours ago

              My other criticism was that the US was not genuine with the process for a ceasefire, and instead prioritized prolonging the war with Russia the same way the Afghanistan proxy war was used against the USSR, at the cost of Ukrainian lives.

              “was not genuine with process for a ceasefire”

              Would you like to elaborate on this?

              I criticized the Dems and the Republicans for funding, defending, and facilitating a genocide. As anyone with a conscience should. We should be doing everything possible to fight back against imperialism and genocide. That’s what international law is supposed to be about.

              So yes, it is the exact position that you criticized mainstream Dems on, just for Palestine.

              • Keeponstalin@lemmy.worldEnglish
                12·
                7 hours ago

                Noam Chomsky & Vijay Prashad: U.S. Must Stop Undermining Negotiations with Russia to End Ukraine War

                So yes, it is the exact position that you criticized mainstream Dems on, just for Palestine.

                You get that Israel and Russia are the ones committing genocide against Ukraine and Palestine, right? Yeah, I support Ukrainian and Palestinian resistance against fascist forces and their rights to sovereignty and self-determination.

                • PugJesus@lemmy.worldEnglish
                  41·
                  7 hours ago

                  Noam Chomsky & Vijay Prashad: U.S. Must Stop Undermining Negotiations with Russia to End Ukraine War

                  Oh, Noam Chomsky said it, what’s his view on Ukr-

                  Jesus Christ.

                  You get that Israel and Russia are the ones committing genocide against Ukraine and Palestine, right? Yeah, I support Ukrainian and Palestinian resistance against fascist forces and their rights to sovereignty and self-determination.

                  Yet those who take a “Genocide is okay because it’s expensive or hurts my fee-fees to oppose 🥺” position gets a pass from you on one genocide, but infinite criticism and accelerationism for the other.

                  Curious.

                  • Keeponstalin@lemmy.worldEnglish
                    11·
                    5 hours ago

                    The longer the war persists, the more destruction and devastation there will be, the more what’s called collateral damage elsewhere, massive starvation because of the closing off of Black Sea exports — there’s some relaxation of that, but we have little information about it — threat of nuclear war increases, and perhaps most significantly of all, and least discussed, is the fact that as the war continues, the limited efforts to deal with the overwhelming crisis of climate destruction, those reverse.

                    2nd part of the DemocracyNow interview

                    Now Putin has moved on to the anticipated escalation, “targeting Ukraine’s energy infrastructure over the last few weeks and stepping up its strikes in the eastern region of the country.” Putin’s escalation to the U.S.-U.K.-Israel model has been rightly condemned for its brutality — condemned by those who have accepted the original with little if any objection, and whose ghastly gamble laid the groundwork for the escalation, exactly as was warned throughout. There will be no accountability, though some lessons may have been learned.

                    https://chomsky.info/20221116-2/

                    Is reading the headline as far as you got? The US was incredibly brutal when invading Iraq. That doesn’t mean Russia isn’t also very brutal when they target civilians and civilian infrastructure, it means the US has historically been more brutal than Russia currently is when the US invaded other sovereign countries. If you think Chomsky doesn’t consider Russia’s invasion criminal, brutal, and unjustifiable, that’s just not correct. If you actually read the interviews, his analysis is on what aspects of US foreign policy are prolonging the conflict. The US has never cared about Ukrainian Sovereignty, the US only cares about continuing US foreign policy of Neo-colonialism. Funding Ukraine militarily was/is the correct thing to do, that doesn’t mean the US in invulnerable to criticism in all aspects of it’s foreign policy on Ukraine. Like how they went weak on sactions, or how they refused to give iron dome tech to Ukraine.

                    Yet those who take a “Genocide is okay because it’s expensive or hurts my fee-fees to oppose 🥺” position gets a pass from you on one genocide, but infinite criticism and accelerationism for the other.

                    What drugs are you smoking? I’ve never been ok with any genocide for any reason. Unlike many liberals who were fine with Biden funding genocide because “it’s not an important issue”. I’ve always been against genocide and accelerationism. Quote me proving otherwise or get your pathetic strawman out of here.